How do you define "diversity"?

I usually refer to diversity as "more than meets the eye." It may be about social or economic structure, religious diversity, sexual orientation — even how we treat each other depending on a person's title or job. But at the same time, I don't want us to overlook the fact that the most crucial issue at St. Olaf and in the nation is race. Race has to be at the forefront of every discussion. Race and ethnicity are the big dividing lines in this nation and everywhere else.

What progress have you made at St. Olaf?

There's a lot of work to be done, but we're making a difference. We've had a number of healthy and honest conversations. We've engaged many aspects of the community. Those conversations were happening, but they weren't as inclusive and broad. Sometimes institutions of higher education tend to intellectualize everything. We want to bring the conversation down to human interaction: how we view people, how we treat people. That has a lot to do with diversity.

How do you ensure people feel safe speaking up at all?

I say upfront, "Let's have a healthy, open and respectful conversation." I just come right out and say it. Sometimes people don't ask questions because they fear being politically incorrect. I would rather you ask than keep it in your mind, with thinking based on stereotypes. So I say to people, "Let's disagree respectfully. We won't always agree, and if we did, we would not move forward. Ask the questions. Just respect the way others think or feel."

How do you see the issue of race playing out on this campus, where the student body is 95 percent Caucasian?

We need to be more proactive in getting people here. We say they are welcome. We say we are open. We say we are very inclusive, but our numbers don't say that.

When I came here, I learned the phrase "Minnesota nice." What does that mean — that we don't say what we mean? It didn't sound nice to me, to tell you the truth. It sounds like a cover-up. This concept is not understood in the Latino community: "Oh, come over sometime. Let's get together," and then you get no specific date. We have to be active and aggressive if we want to translate our niceness into action. If we say we want students of color here, then we can't turn around and say: "They don't want to come because it's too cold." They could have said that of me. I'm from Panama.

This is why I do a lot of work outside the college. I say, "Check us out, take a look. You're going to like what you see." I want more people of color — and people who are not affluent, not Lutheran, not Norwegian, who are gay or lesbian — to see that we are more than they think we are. But we can't just say: "Come on over sometime." We have to work at getting them here.

How do you help people of color feel comfortable at a largely white institution? How can St. Olaf encourage them to stay?

Often I hear that the people of one race stick together at St. Olaf; they sit together at a meal. Well, why do all the women stick together? Why do faculty from a certain department stick together — or the kids from a certain sport or a certain major? They have some common denominator. People seek that.

At mealtime, you want to relax and be yourself. You want to find a group of people with whom you can more easily do that. So the students of color, who are very few and who are constantly in the spotlight, want to just cool off and be comfortable. Why do we expect the student in the minority to take the step? It's much easier if you're in the majority. We call it white privilege.

If you're gay or lesbian, you can go take a chance. You don't have a label that says you're different. If you're a different religion or you're poor, you can test the water. When you're black, you can't test the water. You don't have the privilege that race gives you. By how you look, you will be accepted or excluded. People of color take a risk every time they make a move. We have to make sure that members of the community who are in the minority feel just as welcome. It is easy to invalidate people by invalidating their experiences and silencing their voices. Then they feel unwelcome and we turn around and allege that "they don't like it here."

You've said you saw a spark and openness when you came to St. Olaf.

I saw that a lot more than close-mindedness. You have to realize that some people are dinosaurs, and you just wait. Eventually they will move. It's the laws of nature. But I always say: We cannot allow anger or frustration to take over, because then we don't move forward.

I have seen some hesitation to be more open and inclusive because change does bring fear and discomfort. Here at St. Olaf, I often see or perceive a fear of "losing our tradition and heritage." I saw that at Princeton as well. That is not going to happen. What I think would happen is that we would be richer and stronger. All who come here do so because we appreciate the traditions, heritage and values of the college. But we also expect that the traditions and heritage we bring will be appreciated.

We no longer speak of a "melting pot." We now speak of a "salad bowl" where we can appreciate all the distinctive flavors of a colorful salad. Let's think of St. Olaf metaphorically as the salad bowl holding all of these ingredients; the bowl is solid and will never change. And the more we put into it, the richer it becomes and the more we have to sample.

This is a college of the church, a place where people try to live a moral life. Do you see a precedent here for tolerance of diversity?

I see the tolerance. But I would like to see us talking not about tolerance but about acceptance and appreciation. The history of St. Olaf is about reaching out to the underrepresented — and what that means is different than when the college was formed. I think we're going along with the college mission.

St. Olaf was founded because Norwegian immigrants were underserved by higher education. Today we are still reaching out to the underserved, but their faces have changed. Maybe they aren't Norwegian. Maybe they're from the farm, or they're gay or lesbian, or they're less affluent, or they're of a different race.

At the end of the day, how will you know you've been successful?

I'm encouraged by the dialogue and conversations. There is a lot of energy in the college. People are addressing these things on their own. But I tell the faculty committees and the provost, "Don't get discouraged if we don't do well in a recruitment year. We just began that this year." I won't be discouraged if we end up with only one or two more people of color, or people who are different, or a woman where we have mostly had men. I don't think we're going to see big numbers overnight. But I measure success by the fact that we are having conversations. I see people making a concerted effort to break the mold. I see more outreach. We're sending messages. We are bringing more people to campus for interviews.

We are planting seeds, and a tree takes a long time to grow. It's not like we've been doing this for 20 years. We will be successful when more people of color are calling and showing interest. When people here are picking up the phone and expanding their network, outside their comfort zone. When people are setting not quotas but goals for their department. I think that's progress.

But ultimately I believe we will be successful as an institution if we make a difference in terms of who is included among students, faculty and staff — who sits at the table — and also by how understanding and appreciative of diversity we all learn to be.